Family First Leadership Lessons From A 19-Year Marriage

Nineteen years of marriage will either soften you or split you, and we’ve seen both outcomes up close. As our anniversary hits, we sit down at the Family Table to talk honestly about love, faith, and what it takes to build a marriage that can carry calling without crushing the people you love most. If you’re a pastor, church leader, or a family trying to live with purpose, this conversation is for you.

We start with a leadership framework that guides our life: union with Jesus first, then marriage and family, then everything else that looks like “ministry.” We unpack why so many gifted leaders still end up with fractured homes, and how choosing family first is not a luxury, it’s biblical and practical. You’ll hear the story of how we knew we were meant to be together, how friendship became the backbone of our relationship, and why “follow peace” has been one of our most reliable guides.

We also get practical. We talk about favorite memories and the small habits that keep romance alive: flirting, walks, games, intentional dates, and making space to dream. We share a hard lesson we learned around finances and why so many ministry families never get real money mentorship, plus what we wish someone had told us before we got married, including the value of premarital counseling, communication tools, and conflict skills.

If you’ve ever wondered how to build a strong Christian marriage while leading others, press play, then subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more families and leaders can find it.

Transcript

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Anniversary Kickoff And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We're recording. Okay, perfect. All right, you ready? Woo! This is a big episode.

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Be ready.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

All right. I know everybody sees me with this lighter the past two episodes, and you're like, he's about to light one up, but I'm not. This is this is a Circle K lighter and it's for one purpose and one purpose only. Candles. The candles. Period. Like, at least that's what we use them for. All right. Ready?

SPEAKER_05 0:25

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Christ is light. I am light. There it is. We did it.

SPEAKER_05 0:35

We did it.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Okay. This is a big episode.

SPEAKER_05 0:39

It is. It's a special one.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Why?

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Because this month is our 19-year anniversary, and we are going to be talking love and marriage, my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

19 years that we've been married on July 21st, which is just a couple days away. And so we we are just dedicating this podcast to not just talking about our 19 years, but taking our 19 years and imparting it to leaders and pastors, uh people that are like, I want to do marriage well. And so I think that's really important. So quick update, real quick. Um,

Pastor Leader Call And House Church Vision

SPEAKER_00 1:28

yesterday I hosted my first ever pastor and church leader call, like a first ever Shepherd's Tent Pastor and Church Leader call. Yeah. We had 13 pastors and leaders show up, which I thought was phenomenal. We had people there from West Virginia, Ireland, Florida, Ohio. Um, it was amazing. I was so, so thankful. And um, one of the things that I felt like Holy Spirit spoke to me when we got back was you need to do a monthly call. And so um, if you're a pastor, you're church leader, you're somebody that you're like, you know what, Mark, I've been displaced from the church and I left the system behind, but we don't really have a place to call home around us. Well, maybe God's speaking to you to return back to the original intent of the early church and use your home as a place to call the church. And maybe there's a pastoral gift in there, there's leadership in there. And uh, I know a lot of people are so scared of the house church thing because they're like, I don't want to be seen as lawless or whatever. Well, first of all, religious people are not gonna like anything that you do outside of the four walls of their building. So you got to not care what they think. Secondly, um, you don't have to be lawless because there are places and people like ourselves that are like, we want to be a resource to you, walk with you, equip you, and show you what it could look like to host church at your house. So, all that being said, we do a monthly pastor call. If you don't want to miss the next one, then I encourage you to get signed up uh for that call. We do it the second Tuesday of every month, 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. We'd love for you to be in there. So again, if you're a pastor, church leader, somebody that's opening up your home and you see the church returning back to original intent, which we believe is not a building, not a franchise, it's a family. And uh, if that's your heart, that's your vision, you're gonna love it. So go get signed up for the call. And we launched with that yesterday our pastor church leader community. So if you want something and a place to connect between the calls, that's available too. The link for that's in the show notes below.

unknown 3:41

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Isn't that awesome? That's awesome, baby. 13 pastors. Like, I'm so fired up. You should be uh because this is us returning to original intent. We came here to Covington in 2019 and we birthed something that was just a little bit better version of the world we came out of. Yahweh rescued us from that and put us back in this city and in this region and uh to be a resource for pastors and leaders. And there are a lot of them in the Atlanta area. Yeah. And so um, I just was even driving around praying today, like, Lord, open doors for us to just be a huge blessing, yes, nationally, yes, internationally, but help us be a blessing to those that are right here in our community. So it's gonna be fun.

Union With Jesus Before Anything Else

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Um, one of the things that I said yesterday on that call though, and it translates to what we're gonna talk about today, is there are when when I'm speaking to leaders, there's three things that really matter to me. And I am so distracted. You're beautiful today. I love your makeup. Sweet. I'm like, sorry, I'm having a moment here. Um, I don't know if it's the nostalgia of 19 years, but you are you're beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Thank you, baby. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

All right, let's try this again. When I'm talking to leaders, and I'm speaking to leaders, and I'm saying these are the three most important things to me. Number one is your union with Jesus. Yes. Everything flows out of that union, everything that you are, like your being flows out of that place of union. John 15, he's the vine, we're the branches, you abide in him, he abides in us, his word abides in us, and then it says, we can ask whatever we will and it shall be done. So union's really big, um, primarily because we have a generation of leaders in the church that have given themselves to ministry, and very few of them have been discipled in identity. And that's why we're seeing so much chaos in leadership. And so, so union really becomes the answer for everything. Um, secondly, from that union is not ministry, the second part is marriage and family. Like we are a family first people. The scripture makes it very clear. If you cannot lead your own household, how can you lead the church of God? That's what Paul said to Timothy. So we are a family first people, we are not the people, like we are a generation that's stepping up, and we've seen some incredible generals and people that were before us that did great things. Yes, but then the sad part is they get to the end of their life, they have no successor. We find out that they didn't have a great marriage. They found out that we find out later that they didn't have a great relationship with their kids. We want to end that cycle. Um, I write a lot about that in my book, uh, Carriers of His Presence. There's a chapter in there talking about the traveling prophet. And I asked people in that book, I said, um, when it comes to the prophet Samuel, um, everybody knows what he did for Israel, but can anybody name for me the name of his two sons? So that's a challenge for people that are watching this. Um, without Chat GBT or any AI help, can you name Samuel's sons just from the top of your head? And the sad part is while Israel is rejoicing at how amazing Samuel was in his ministry, two boys are crying for dad at home. And at the end of his life, um, they ask for a leader to replace him, and the scripture says he doesn't even have any sons raised in his ways. Wow. So he literally did what what a generation before us has done. We sacrifice our family on the altar of ministry. We want to finish that. We want to end that, right? Um, then thirdly, is the gospel. But but I look at the gospel as the wine, it's new wine being poured out, not new in the sense of this is new, it's never been seen or heard or talked about before, but new in quality. Like there is a re there's a restoration of the gospel happening. However, the proof that the gospel is being restored is that then not only is there new wine being poured out, but there is a new wine skin being formed. I believe you and I and our family have walked through a twofold process since 2015. I believe we went to South Carolina, that was us leaving Egypt. And then I think the last few years in Covington, including our one year of transition in Mobile, I believe that was getting Egypt out of us. I still had that church thing in me and wanted to see, you know, my idea of church. The Lord got that out of me.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

Um you're also raised that that's what success looked like as well. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, for sure. So the proof that we're receiving the gospel, though, is there has to be a new wine skin. And to me, the new wine skin is the apostolic relational blueprints of the book of Acts Church. Okay. So those are three things that are really important.

unknown 9:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Union, family, the wineskin. Yes. Um, so today is really about family.

Why Family Comes Before Ministry

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah. And I I'm excited to talk about that. We've you and I, we sit down every week and we've never really done this before. So we have a shared note now every week, and you and I are kind of bouncing ideas off of each other and talking about things. And then even last night we were kind of just texting through these ideas and and going through these questions uh to talk about. So um I'm gonna ask the questions and we're gonna try to get through as many as we can. Um, but I want this to be a podcast where yes, we're gonna share a little bit about our marriage, but it's more about like let's turn this and invest this into them. So our stories we believe are gonna bless you. Um, I believe our testimonies are gonna bless you. I believe there's some lessons we've learned along the way that I think are gonna bless people. And um, yeah, I'm excited to jump into this. And then I believe next week we're gonna finally jump in and start talking a little bit more about like our vision for the shepherd's tent and the family table and get into more of that. But I think it's good that people get to know us. Why would they listen to us unless they knew us and something was connecting with them saying these are our people? So I'm I'm happy to do

How We Knew We Would Marry

SPEAKER_00 10:30

it. So we got married as of this week, 19 years ago. We've known each other since we were in the seventh grade. You were in the seventh grade, I was in eighth, and uh we've just had a friendship this whole time. Like um, somebody, I was on the phone with a client today with um Longpath Creator Academy, and I was on the phone and he or on the Zoom call with him, and he was like, Man, I just love watching you and your wife interact on these podcasts. He said, I can tell that you are friends, and I'm like, Yes, that's the only way this works. We were friends before, yeah. We got married as friends, and 19 years later, I think that we are more friends. I'll say this for me, you can say whatever you want. I'm more in love, I'm more attracted, I'm more obsessed 19 years later than I was even when we got married. Um, I don't like when I look back, like so thankful for the love that drew us to get married, but looking back and calling that the definition of true love seems so immature now from what we share today. And I'm I'm just super thankful for that. So the first question is when did you know I want to marry this guy?

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Um, I don't know that necessarily a thought that like I want to marry him, but I can remember that one night we were talking on the phone and we were just talking about things about the Lord because you were a youth pastor at that time. And so that wasn't really a part of like who you were when I we first met, and so getting to like re-know you in that time because we met when we were so young, and so we were just having fun, like just kids. Yeah, yeah, we were kids. And then when we you moved away, so we didn't see each other for a couple years, and then we came back together, we saw each other again, and then we started talking just as friends again. And at that time, you were a youth pastor, and so you were talking to me and sharing to with me like things about the Lord and things that you had a prophetic gift in. And at that time, I didn't really have the language for that, but it's always, I feel like even since then, like just naturally just like flowed from you, and you was effortless, you know. And so you're kind of just like flowing in that a little bit, just what's the way they just say like naturally, supernatural.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Like I was just talking to you about what the Lord was doing and yeah, what I felt like Holy Spirit was doing, and I didn't realize that while I'm like sharing these things, the Lord's like reading your mail and you had never been around that.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

Yeah, and in that, like we were there was interest already in like in that space, in those conversations, it was like the Lord like shifted my heart, like this is different, yeah, like this relationship is different, and it could be it, you know, like this could seriously be it. And so I just set my heart like if this is what the Lord wants for my life, then I say yes to it. And so ultimately I believe I can uh have my heart open, but I believe as a man, like you have to choose, like if I'm that person, you know, like so unlikely, thankfully you did.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah. I mean, it was it was a journey uh for me to to know the moment that like I'm like I'm gonna marry this person. It had to come in a journey because of some really poor advice I received when I was younger. And I had somebody in my life that I considered a leader in my life. And uh I remember him saying to me, you know, I got married too young. And um, like I'm thankful that I got married, but I I got married too young, and I've always lived with this. I wonder if I married the right person because I didn't explore enough in dating and relationships. And so I remember when I realized I'm like, oh my God, this is probably the one that backfired on me in a way that I was shocked because I was like, I was scared. I was like, no, like I'm not old enough for to know this and to say yes to this. And so like I end up putting pause on our relationship. And I like went and dated three girls that were all like like so different. It was like if you look back here, like none of it made sense because they were not even people, but they were all uniquely different, and I had to have the experience of what were what is this person like? What's that person like? And so it really wasn't out of a place of like a healthy dating space, it was just plain out of fear. So I think I already knew before. And that's what like messed me up was that advice from a leader going, Yeah, I wish I would have dated more so I could fully know, but I already knew. And so I remember like going through that, and that never like satisfied, never scratched the itch. But the whole time you were committed to you were like, whether he likes me or not, I've experienced something. You got the baptism of the Holy Spirit at my dad's church, and you started experiencing things in God, and you're like, Well, now I'm in this for Jesus, yes, and he can do whatever he wants to do. And um, you just stayed faithful and you stayed committed and you prayed and you watched me go through that. And I remember you were about to go on vacation, and the Holy Spirit woke me up in the middle of the night. I was already asleep, woke me up in the middle of the night and said, You need to go get your wife. That's all I heard. And um, I drove to you in the middle of the night, and I like just grabbed you and I hugged you and I held you, and I was like, This is this starts now. Like, this is official. That was the night I knew. I was like, We're you know, and we never like quote unquote like started dating or we never went together. We were just from that moment on, it was like you you're mine and I'm yours. And and that really was how it was. And like we just kind of figured it out from there. And uh, but I knew that night, I was like, that's my wife, and you had told the Lord, you said, Lord, if he if he and I don't have this conversation and we don't connect, and and I had no clue, but this was between you and Jesus, so I really am prophetic. It's really amazing today. I'm just being silly, and um, but like to hear that, and you were just like, Lord, if we don't talk before I go on this vacation, I'm gonna forget about it and move on. But when I get back to West Virginia, I'm never gonna you know mess with them again. And the Holy Spirit woke me up the morning you were about to leave for that trip and said, Go get your wife. Yeah, and I got in my little red van, my minivan that my grandfather got for us, and I was flying down the road to get to where you were, and I was so happy um to find out like I just made it right in time, and um, it meant a lot to me, and because I knew that it was all grace because like if this would if you wouldn't have had your encounter with Jesus, you would have never stuck around to watch me go through that process. But the Lord was making remain friends even through the process, sure, but like it still was hard for you to watch me go through that and be so confused about what I'm supposed to do with my life and who I'm supposed to be with when I think you knew this is like a thing. So um, I'm really thankful uh for that moment, and I will never forget that moment as long as I live because that was like when I realized this is real, and um I yeah, I'm still grateful you said yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:44

Um I would say too, and I just had a thought, like people say all the time, like, how do you know? Like, and I'm like, if you don't, if you're asking that question, you probably don't know because maybe it's not for everybody, but it was like that moment. It's like when you know, you know. Yeah. To me, it was just like a feeling, it was like an instinct, you know, it was like literally my heart just changed. It was almost like instantaneously. True, and I'm thankful. It's like I just knew, and there's no talking me out of it.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, right, peaceful, like you have to be attracted, obviously. I mean, I think that comes with the territory, but also I feel like um you not only the physical attraction, but there's a connection there. And the thing that we had before there was even an attraction was that we were um that we were friends.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Yeah, we had fun together.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Like we had a blast together. We were constantly laughing. We loved, like, we love to do the simplest things. Um, we like we just were we were together. I hear so much giggling, and it's our daughter. She's back there with Elijah, our producer and our producer and our co-producer, and she's really giggly today. So she wanted to be with us. She did, she did, and I'm happy she is. I love it. Um, so I think that you know, the physical attraction, the friendship has to be there. But like you said, there's just a knowing that's like I I just know this is like you feel peace. It's what we always say, follow peace. Yes, and there was a peace to go, this is right, and we're gonna get married, and it doesn't matter how young we are, like this is right and this is good, and um, and so you just know.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

You just know, you just know, I'd still be knowing.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

You still be knowing? I'd still be knowing. So let me ask you this. What

Favorite Memories Trips And Daily Joy

SPEAKER_00 20:45

have been um your favorite, let's let's say favorite memories from our marriage? Favorite memory, some favorite memories.

SPEAKER_05 20:54

Um, our trips. I love our trips, and some of my favorite memories. Yeah Disney, Blue Ridge, California, Virgin Islands, Virgin Islands.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Virgin Islands was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

That was our That was different.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

That was our one-year anniversary, and Dr. Lowry, I was still working for T. L. Lowry at the time, and what he booked this trip uh to go preach in the Virgin Islands. And I I looking back, it's the only time he ever went, and I was like, and he booked it around our anniversary, and something tells me he did that for us because he's he said, sweet, I can remember him saying, Hey, I'm going to preach at the Virgin Islands. He brought me into his office and he was like, It's right around your anniversary. And he was like, So I want Destiny to go with us. And so he paid for us to go. He also got us our own room. I I remember we were staying at the Sugar Bay Resort there in St. Thomas. Do you even remember the stuff like that? I remember all the things.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

I was just happy to be there.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

And so um, it was like we were just one and a half years out of West Virginia. Well, no, one year out of West Virginia.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

We literally got married and moved the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

So go to the Virgin Islands was insane. And I another thing I remember, Kevin Nash, a famous pro wrestler, was on the flight with us. And I remember him getting off, and I was just like starstruck. I'm like, that's Kevin Nash. So for all you wrestling fans, that'll mean something to you. But um, he was there. He was not happy. His most of our suitcases got blown apart. You remember that on the as they were bringing out on the carousel? Most people's stuff was like blown apart and clothes were just on. You don't remember that? No. Oh my gosh. She was just so focused on me, ladies and gentlemen, that she didn't care about anything else. So um, that was awesome. But the catch was we were in service every night. Every night. So Dr. Lowry was like, now listen, there are people that are tour guides at the church. They know it's your anniversary. They're willing any day and every day to take y'all out wherever you want to go. It's already paid for. And so, like, we had people to chauffeur us around the island all the time. And um, we drank the best pina coladas. Yes, non-alcoholics. Non-alcoholic. We were church of God then, non-alcoholic for sure. And um uh you remember those big iguanas though?

SPEAKER_04 23:21

Yes, those are scary as fuck.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

And they would walk through your legs while we were eating breakfast, just just walk, and they were like, no, just don't make any sudden movements because they will pop you and like can break the skin. Yeah, I'm like, my God, they were huge. They were, but we had an absolute blast on that trip. And then what happened was we were there for seven days. On day three, one of Dr. Larry's board members suddenly passed away. And so he looks at me and he goes, You're gonna have to preach the rest of the week. Yep. So I had so we were like hanging out every single day, and then at a certain time, I'm like, I gotta go back to the room, lock in, and preach for these people tonight. And um, so that was our one-year anniversary, but like those were amazing memories. What so trips, obviously, Disney, yes, Disney has been a part of our world since our fifth wedding anniversary. So, for how many years now?

SPEAKER_03 24:18

That's 14 years.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

14 years we have been a Disney family, we have been, and we've done a lot of amazing things. We had a connection, Orlando, he's was such a gift to us, and he allowed us to come to Disney as many times as we could, and we always tried to make a way to make that happen. And we made amazing memories. People think of Disney and they think of like kitty rides and stuff. I'm like, best food on the planet. You you're missing it.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

Oh, yeah. Great food, and for us, like it stirs up our imagination and our vision of like what's possible. So it's more than just like a vacation. It's like truly is like fuels our creators inside of us.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Well, one of the things we did on one of those Disney trips on our one of our anniversary trips was we went and we did a keys to the kingdom behind the scenes tour. And we went and we can't maybe we can do that for the partners only and tell them what we learned. Um, is Walt Disney's body underneath the castle frozen? Don't mean to get the conspiracy started, but you know, so we did the behind the scenes tour, and that like uh that woke something up in us. And I think there's some things that we learned on that where I didn't quite know I wanted to have that a part of our ministry experience, I but I didn't know how to do that. And I think the season we're stepping into with leaders, yeah, I think some of that stuff is about to come alive um in creating culture and and stuff for yeah, uh those leaders.

SPEAKER_05 26:01

Leaders and visionaries, it's like, no, things really are possible. We can do it, you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah, Walt Disney was an amazing mind, and he did not take no for an answer. And he had a creativity that was not filtered through religion, and I think that is why he did such amazing things. I'm like, uh if anything I learned from Walt Disney, whether he knew Jesus or not, I I can't really tell. But what can I what I can tell is he tapped into a creativity that was unfiltered by religion.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

And I feel like how we are the most, we should be the most creative people on the planet because we are kingdom people claiming to have union with the creator of the universe, father, son, and spirit living in us, and us in that circle dance. We should be the most creative people on the planet. But the problem is we filter everything through our religious mindsets and we miss a lot. So, anyways, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about memories here and Disney's been.

SPEAKER_05 27:07

I think just everyday life, our walks, um, playing games, playing cards, favorite memories, having our babies.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

That's like a given, yes. Favorite memory, three beautiful moments, three beautiful pregnancies, four beautiful pregnancies, three that great, easy deliveries, a fourth one that cost me PTSD.

SPEAKER_05 27:31

But you're here, but I'm here to survive and we're better for it.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

You decided to do a home birth on number four.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

God bless America.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

That's that's a podcast episode to talk about um how to, as a father, come back from a home birth. So we'll talk about that in another episode.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

Thank you for being with me. Thank you. You are earned a Joel in your crown that day.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Lord, I can't we need to do that podcast. That would be fun. Tell that story. People will laugh their butts off. It is.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

So I'm thankful.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Um, but favorite memories, Disney, our trips, our walks. Like, we we don't do a lot of things like trips-wise. Like, I traveled and preached a lot, but like here recently, um in the past what 11 years, it's been more of the day-to-day. And like um walking together is our favorite, playing golf, uh, a card game. Golf is a lot of fun. Um Skippo. We love to watch shows together, something that you and I f like, because I mean we have very different tastes in movies, but every once in a while there's a movie like The Proposal or something that comes out that's like a great blend of who we are and TV shows that we like to watch. Um, she won't watch documentaries with me. Uh, she draws the line there. There's some. There's some.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

Um, but you're more like historian documentaries.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 29:08

So um those type of things are I think celebrations like our Christmases, celebrating, just holidays, St. Patrick's Day. We've had some fun St. Patrick's Days and I don't know, Easter's, all the holidays. I've enjoyed those.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Well, you're a celebrator. Um, I think Brynn called you that years ago, and I was like, yeah, that's a great name. You're a you are a celebrator of life, and so you take a lot of mundane moments and try to add some magic to it. And sometimes it works, sometimes we get hurt. Um depends.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

We don't get hurt, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Lord, I mean, not on that, not on purpose, but like, you know, there's been times where we've suffered minor injuries because of you trying to spice up events. So, but yeah, I mean, like, it's all I I know this is gonna sound cliche, but it's not like I've enjoyed every phase of our marriage in 19 years, like the young years where we don't have a clue what we're doing, we're just doing life and living in a little tiny uh townhouse or living in you know, our little 900 square foot home that we bought the first time, and like uh I remember back then, like our house was like $80,000. I

A Mold Crisis And Supernatural Provision

SPEAKER_00 30:35

think we paid $80,000 for it. Um and this is kind of jumping ahead because we were talking about moments that were like miracle moments, but this is a miracle moment for us early on.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

We haven't gotten to that far yet.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

No, but we're gonna skip ahead and talk about it right now because I'm thinking about it. Um when we were in that little tiny house, we thought we owned the world by owning a piece of real estate at the at 23. And I remember we were in there not very long, maybe two years, when we found out we had like major mold issues, and a fourth of our house had to be torn down. And um, we didn't know what we were gonna do. And I felt the Holy Spirit wake up, wake me up one morning and go, just go to a prayer meeting. And I went to this prayer meeting, asked the people to pray. While I'm at the prayer meeting, God speaks to somebody and they're like, How much do you need? And uh or or they they were praying and saying, Lord, how much do you want me to give them? And they gave us exactly the amount we needed. The owner of the mold company flew in. They had 22 offices nationwide. He happened to hop on a plane to Chattanooga and come see what his people were doing in the Chattanooga, Cleveland area, comes to our house, finds out who we are, and he takes a $22,000 job and turns it into five grand.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

And then God, and then God speaks and the person gives us $5,000. And like those type of memories, like are the ones I love because we literally were just going all in on the gospel and loving on people. And we were take, even though I was a major legalist back then, like I loved Jesus with all my guts, and I wanted people to experience him. I didn't want anybody going to hell, I didn't want anybody sick, I didn't want anybody depressed, and we were going for it full speed and didn't have a clue what we were doing financially or any of those things, and God would just provide for us supernaturally. And so those are some of my favorite memories of our marriages. Just I can look back and go, I probably wouldn't tell anybody to do life the way we have. But we've truly lived by the whispers of Holy Spirit, the direction that comes by way of peace. And we've we've gone for it, we just go for it. And he's provided.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Is there any other memories that you think of and you're like, man, that was great. Our bike ride in LA.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Yeah, I say I just immediately went to the sunset help for me.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

We had uh our friends gave us electric bikes and we biked on the what was that the strand in Hermosa Beach. And you're we we we rode our bikes all the way till we hit the mountains and it was just magical. It was magical.

SPEAKER_05 33:28

Yeah, my let's go back right now. I'm ready. Hey, my bag's packed in 10 minutes, baby. I'm a professional packer. When I forget, I'll get it when I get there.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yeah, that's right. That's your professional packing is if I forget it, I'll just get it there.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

Toothbrush, all those little things.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Anything, any other ones that stick out to you?

SPEAKER_05 33:49

Oh gosh. Um, when we bought this house, we bought our house. Yeah. The day we went and signed, and then we came, and I had all my colors and ran down the driveway and through the yard. That was really special.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

I think every like 4D ultrasound we did seeing our babies before they came out, the woman was pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_05 34:12

It was yeah, a highlight.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

A highlight of my life was the Lord spoke to me before we got married, and he said, When you get married, you'll have your first child will be a son. His name will be Elijah, it'll be a boy. I remember people going, Man, like you should probably not say that. Like you should probably be be open-minded. Like, you're you might have a girl. Like, and I would tell people, no, I know God's voice and I know what he said. And he said I was gonna have a boy, and I was to name him Elijah. And so I remember being in West Virginia when we had an ultrasound, right? That was because we didn't find out until we went to West Virginia, so your mom and some other people could see what the gender was.

SPEAKER_05 34:53

Yeah, we did the I think, yeah. Yeah, we did the phone.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

And so, anyways, we did go into ultrasound, and your mom was like, You need I'm just telling you, like, don't get disappointed. I'm like, I'm not disappointed. It's a boy, his name's gonna be Elijah. And all of a sudden they brought up on the screen and they were like, Yep, there's the turtle. And I was like, and his name shall be called Elijah. That's how it felt in my mind, you know. And um man, those are our babies are our greatest gift and memories that we have. I mean, we always have a blast and always make the best of things, but like becoming a mom and a dad has been pretty legit. Yes. So

The Money Lesson We Learned Late

SPEAKER_00 35:37

um let's let's say what's one lesson we had to learn the hard way? We talked about this last night. Yes, I'll let you answer this one. I think probably it would be finances. Um I think that finances are were the thing that we had to learn the hard way because I kind of got tossed into ministry and opportunities really young, uh coming out of pretty intense poverty. Like we my family didn't have a lot, and so nobody was talking to me about 401ks and savings accounts and retirement accounts and any of those things. And um I just remember like going us going through that really busy season. And so because we were so busy, when I wasn't there, we would do extravagant things to make up for time, you know. So we did a lot of Disney trips, we ate out a lot because we didn't want to cook food and waste time because we didn't have a bunch of time together. Um and there was a grace for that. Like we we that was still an amazing season. Like, people are people think that we left that world because something was off in our marriage. No, I think it was looking down the road at other people who had done it for 20 some years and go, yeah, I don't even want to take a chance on that. Even though things are really good between you and I now, I don't want to take a risk on that 20 years from now, losing this what we have. So when I would come back in, it was like we're going to Hilton Head. When I would be off, you know, we're going to Disney, we're going to Jacksonville, we're going, and and so we had money, and we were just, I'd be like, well, let's just go do it and I'll make it up next weekend, and you know, we'll get the bills paid and do all the things. So, anyways, um I just think that when we came off the road in 2015 and it came time to take time off, and the Lord said to like cancel your full itinerary. I remember sitting down with Apostle Damon and him going, you know, how's your finances? Like I like I know that it's right for you to cancel, and and um, and I know that you got a breakthrough with a businessman that's gonna pay your salary, which that's an amazing story. And um, but like, how's your finances? Like, surely you've got like a lot of resources stocked up. And I was like, I don't have anything stocked up. And he's like, You literally traveled 42 weekends out of the year, and like you're telling me you don't have like something significant built up. And I was like, sir, nobody's ever sat me down and talked finance, nobody's ever taught me money, and I'm not trying to use that as an excuse. I'm just saying, like, nobody I didn't know, so I just always lived like more was coming. And that's a good way to live, faith and being optimistic and going, God's gonna provide. Nothing wrong with living that way, but I wish somebody would have imparted to us wisdom. Uh, because looking back, um, without going into the numbers because I don't want to puke, but it was like going back and realizing what we could have had, had somebody said, Mark, if you'll do your finances like this, if you'll invest like this, like we would be in a very significantly different place, even in this season of our life than we were before. So I would say that's probably been the hardest lesson in our marriage that we had to learn was when I came off the road not having like a nest egg or something put back for our family. And so we've had to live by faith and never in poverty, but by faith uh our most of our marriage. So got anything you want to say into the speak into any of that? No, you're done? That was easy. I thought you'd want to say something. Is there any less other lessons that we you feel like we've had to learn the hard way in 19 years of marriage that you think would be helpful for people watching? I mean, I I pray, let me say this to finish the first part. Go find if you don't know how to manage money, go find somebody who does. Like if you don't know how to steward your wealth, go find somebody who does. And whether that's a CPA, a tax strategist, or somebody that you know is wealthy around you, like, especially you pastors and church leaders, like I'm I'm sure my dad wouldn't mind me sharing this, but I mean, like, my dad is gone through extreme difficulties in his body and in his back. And he's at the age of retirement, and he has hardly anything saved up to take care of him and my mom in their latter years because people don't talk to pastors about money. They don't, you know, not only did he come out of poverty too, but he had nobody with money around him to kind of share those things. And I feel like that's a big lesson for a lot of people right now. And um my prayer is that you'll find somebody that knows what they're doing that can help you manage that. Yep. Any any other lesson you can think of right now, 19 years of marriage, doesn't have to be the hardest one, it just could be a good lesson. Save it for another podcast. There we go. Um, how have we both changed since we got married?

SPEAKER_05 41:15

How do you

How We Changed Patience And Communication

SPEAKER_05 41:16

change?

SPEAKER_00 41:17

I can definitely say my pace has changed. I'm more patient. Um, I think when you're flying by the seat of your pants and you're younger, you don't have a lot of patience. And so I can remember like any time I thought I was gonna be late, like, and I'm not saying I'm 100% perfect still on this, but definitely uh have way more grace and way more patience. But I was always in a hurry, always in a hurry, and and we gotta get there, we gotta get there, we gotta get there, get ready, and you're hateful and you know, short and all those things. And so, like, I'm definitely my pace has changed. I'm definitely more patient and uh and graceful because I was borderline like OCD at times, like you would clean the whole house. I come home and see a sock in the corner, and therefore the house was totally unclean. Like my analytical critical spirit and being in a hurry and all that really got dealt with in the past 11 years, I would say. So I'm more patient, I'm more kind.

SPEAKER_05 42:26

Yes, you've grown in love a lot.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yes, I've grown in love a lot. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 42:30

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

I'm I'm proud of that.

SPEAKER_05 42:32

I'm very proud of you. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

How have you changed?

SPEAKER_05 42:37

Um I have grown in communication.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Why is that?

SPEAKER_05 42:41

I think so, at least. Obviously, not perfect, still he's still working on me.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

You're great, you're a better, way better communicator than you were.

SPEAKER_05 42:51

Um why how is that or why is that?

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Um, I think it's good for you to say why.

SPEAKER_05 42:57

Um why is that because I have a husband who is a verbal processor and someone who is very much in tune with me. And so when he I know when you're off when I'm processing things, when my wheels are turning, when even if it's not even like that necessarily negative thing, just when I'm like really thinking and processing things, like he knows, and so he wants to know what I'm thinking, and I've always been an internal processor, and that's worked for me, like and he asked has asked me to grow in that and to be able to communicate like what's going on in my interior mind and world to him so that way he can help and just know because I think sometimes he thinks it's him.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Yeah, I want to make sure I'm not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 43:56

And just so that I can. Discommunicate, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah, but I would say that you the why is because you you really grew up in a family that didn't really talk about much.

SPEAKER_05 44:09

It was very much like we didn't they would ask like how our day was, but never any like in-depth, like deep conversations. It was always like very surface level, like not actually getting to know me or like who I was, what I thought about things. It was very much a like, don't speak unless you're spoken to type of family, or um like really talk through things when things happen, like maybe there'll be an initial like conversation, but there's never any like check up or check back in. It's like this is what it is, deal with it and get over it, or you know, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

A lot of people I think have grown up that way.

SPEAKER_05 44:51

And so for me to even I guess maybe even like that someone would care to even hear what was going on, I think was new too. Like, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

I cared I wanted to know, yeah. I cared and I wanted to know how you felt, and I didn't want to see you. I'm like, you you married me to not have to walk through things alone, so let's walk together in it.

SPEAKER_05 45:21

Yeah, I would say like you feel like that was more like early intermarriage, like something's going on, you immediately thought it was you, and I was like, no, like it's not I promise. And I at that point I didn't really have the maturity to even communicate, to even like give you the language for which I know sounds so silly, but it's we were growing.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

I mean, I was insecure, and uh that's why I always thought it was me.

SPEAKER_05 45:45

If you want to make sure you're sure I've always been a peacemaker, so if there was something right and for us to grow and to move on and to be better, and I'm very thankful for that because it was just out of love too.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 46:00

And I think it helps too, it goes into other relationships to where I can have healthy relationships because healthy relationships aren't just surface levels, you know, like those can't be small talk, you gotta have some depth to the relationship and so I think learning to have intentional conversations and to be able to not just listen to but to also to be able to communicate back. Yeah. So I think it's helped me all the way around.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

That's good.

SPEAKER_05 46:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

Yeah, we're better, we're better together.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Um, what do you wish somebody had told us before we got married?

What We Wish We Knew Premarital

SPEAKER_05 46:44

This would kind of made us giggle, but it still like leaves us in shock. Like that nobody encouraged us to have marriage counseling. Nobody. Like, not one person ever married left. It was like we were getting married, and they're like, Okay, okay, great. Like, no one ever asked us any questions. No one ever was like, Hey, like, if I'm gonna marry you, like we should have some conversations. Um, you this is a good person, this is a good, like, this is a good book to read.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Like, was literally these are red flags, these are things you need to work on.

SPEAKER_05 47:18

Like, there was nothing asked us anything about a relationship, and that's like thank God we heard from the Lord and loved each other. Oh, I mean, we've said it's like I would never recommend someone to do it the way that we did it. No, um, but by the grace of God, we're just two young kids helped us and he has helped us grow and he has led us literally every step of the way.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

So to God be the glory, because I mean, literally, that would be my same answer is to go. I'm just shocked that nobody was like, you all should have marriage counseling, you should, you know, because marriage counseling to me pre-marital camp. Yeah, pre pre premarital counseling like is so powerful because somebody like could have talked to us about money, somebody could have talked to us about conflict resolution, somebody could have talked to us about sexual health and and expectations, like people could have, and again, we didn't talk about any of those things growing up. Like that's the that's the part people get into sexual dysfunction, financial dysfunction, relational dysfunction, because we literally grew up in a generation where most parents didn't talk to their kids about anything. You had to find out everything on your own, and you had to course correct along the way. And so I'm we both were just sitting there laughing last night, going, Why would nobody like go?

SPEAKER_05 48:45

Hey, you all should probably because your dad was a pastor, my grandfather was a pastor, and both of them were a part of our wedding.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Maybe they thought because we were both I was in the ministry and both of us were so on fire. We we both were on fire for Jesus then. Um maybe that's why, but like still, like I've learned over the years, I don't care if somebody looks like they are burning and they're gifted or whatever. I've seen so much dysfunction under fire and gifting, yeah, that it's unbelievable. I'm like, I don't care if you're the next TD Jakes or whoever, if you're gonna sit under my ministry, yeah, you're going to go through marriage counseling.

SPEAKER_05 49:28

You're gonna marry them.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Like, I do not like that's something that I've committed to because of what we walk through. As I said, I will never marry somebody unless they go through marriage counseling with me. Ever. And um, and uh I think that's a standard we all should live by. And I hate it that we we never had that, but um, those would have been really important conversations. We and we did well to not have those conversations, they still could have been helpful for sure. A mentor, a father, a leader in your life is always better than you having to figure out stuff on your own, always. So that's that. Um all right, these are a little more fun, and we've got about 10 more minutes, so we won't hit all of these, but I told you we weren't gonna get halfway through any of

How We Keep Fun And Romance Alive

SPEAKER_00 50:19

this. Okay um so how do we how do we keep having fun together?

SPEAKER_05 50:25

We keep flirting with each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Um and we don't try, we just do it.

SPEAKER_05 50:31

Yeah. Just natural.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:34

Flirt with each other, and we take walks, we play games, we make space to watch like a show together where we still date each other. We still date. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

It's like, hey, we're gonna go out. It's just gonna be me and you. Yeah. Like just us, and we're gonna have a blast. And um we have a area in our master bedroom. It's like our little TV space, and we got our two favorite chairs, and it's like that's where we get together. Sometimes we put a little thing bit between us and play cards there, watch movies together. Um, that's our little space to just connect. Now those chairs become the place where we talk about the podcast and what we're doing. I'm gonna say something to you, and this may shock you, but maybe it's a gift to you for our 19th anniversary. Okay, okay, is I wish I would have never had another co-host except for you on a podcast.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

Oh.

unknown 51:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

I have really like I've enjoyed all the podcasts we've done. Yeah, but like I always kind of tried to protect you or shield you from the ministry or whatever. And I think that was probably one of the biggest mistakes I made is I should have involved you in all those conversations because we have that connection. And I think our life and our journey and our love for one another is uh will be a great light for a lot of people. So I just want to say I wish you'd have been my co-host all along. I've had to start and stop a lot of things because I did things with other people, and I'm like, I should have. And so I just want to tell you, I'm serious when I say this. Like, you are a great co-host.

SPEAKER_04 52:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

You're only three episodes in, but it's true.

SPEAKER_05 52:31

Victory. Thank you, baby. That means a lot.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Yeah. We also are intentional about getting away. Like we literally go, okay, kids are going somewhere and we're going overnight somewhere to stay, like one, two nights, and just like we're gonna date, we're gonna spend time together, we're gonna be intimate together, we're gonna dream. We we always talk about what are we feeling, what are we sensing, what are we aiming for. And um, I think that's that's really big on the friendship side of things is like we still have fun because we're intentional about having fun. It's like I'm never gonna let the flame of romance die. I'm never gonna stop flirting, I'm never gonna stop dating, and I'm gonna make intentional space to go. Before I had kids, I had you. And this there, our kids are better because we're we're better together. And so um now um I think that the greatest thing that you can give to your the greatest gift you can give to your children is is that kind of marriage to flirt and to make them go, ew, and make them like because and and literally I've been reading psychology recently, and it's like people are like the marriages that show the most affection in front of their children, even though kids are like ew and whatever, it's actually psychologically building health in the child for watching their their parents be flirtatious, and um that's not the word, but that that's a part of it. Affectionate, seeing them affectionate toward each other, and I'm like, we're winning in that for sure. Um we'll just try to hit one more because we got faith here, we've got family here, we've got growth here, and then we've got rapid fire.

SPEAKER_05 54:20

Should we I don't know save these for another? You don't want to do one big long one and split it up.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Uh no. I think I think we can do a part two later.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

We can talk this is not gonna be the last time we talk about marriage. Oh right? So let's do let's do um let's do growth.

Discernment Truth And Healthy Confrontation

SPEAKER_00 54:49

What have I taught you as your spouse?

SPEAKER_05 54:57

Why is grasshopper? You have taught me you have taught me um how to have uh like that healthy convert uh confrontation and yes, how to have a healthy confrontation, and that confrontation isn't bad and that it helps um grow the relationship if the other person will allow for it too.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yeah, honest conversations are the sign of true friendship. I would say that for sure the thing besides introducing me to 459,000 sauces for my food, I am now a sauce person because of you. You're welcome. I would say the thing that you've taught me is to celebrate life, like to to literally like see mundane moments as miracles and see mundane things as like really important. And so like our kids wake up, you know, I don't know very many mornings they didn't wake up as children, like young kids, and not hear your happy songs in the morning, and um just turning like little simple things into our kids thought that we were constantly in a carnival or festival or something. And um one of our friends, uh Brittany, made you a jacket that said festival mama on the back, and I think that describes the kind of impact you've made on my life as like I we were kind of like as a family pretty boring. Um, and just like you just lived life and survived, and then you're like when you came into my world, it was like, no, this is an important moment, and this is a fun moment, and we're gonna make the best of it, and we're gonna, and so like you literally taught me how to celebrate life in the small and the big. So that that's you. Um what do you admire most about me today that you didn't fully appreciate years ago? I know mine immediately. Okay, what's yours? Your discernment. I wish I I really do wish I admire that the most about you in this day, and wish I would have paid attention to it earlier on. You have like they always say women have an intuition. I believe that, but like you have a discernment that is pretty spot on. You you nail it when you're like, hey, you need to be careful here, or you need to watch this, and you need to be careful how you communicate this. And hey, you might want to calm down before you deal with this because I think there's something else going on here. I wish I would have honored that more in the younger years. Um, but it's something that I definitely admire about you now that I wish I would have appreciated more when I was younger. You're a great discerner. Not and and I think that was important for me to see too, because discernment in the Pentecostal movement was more like suspicion. And yours was never like to call out the bad in somebody. It was just like, hey, you need to pay attention to this because they're dealing with something or they're processing something, or there's something more to it. And if you go into it that way, you're gonna make it worse, not better. And sometimes I made it worse just because I was reacting in the moment, and you had great discernment in that. So I really honor that about you. Your discernment without being critical or or judgmental. Yep. My turn.

SPEAKER_05 58:54

Your turn.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Um I would say. Oh, I don't know how to say this.

SPEAKER_05 59:08

Let me see. Let me take a second to get my thoughts together.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Communication.

SPEAKER_05 59:12

Yes. This is it right here. I'm trying to do that.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

She's like, this is what we're talking about, is I'm always helping her process.

SPEAKER_05 59:20

You are such a lover of truth, and I love that. I love everything about it. So for me, though, is when I'm processing to you and I'm seeing things or feeling things, and you come in like just a matter of fact. Sometimes it like can feel like um you're not being compassionate or gentle.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:54

But it's like you are such a lover of truth. You're like, this is it.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

And like it's black and white for me in a lot of ways. And Dustin's like, I just want you to listen.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

I'm like, but I don't want you to fall off the cliff. You're sorry that I'm feeling this way. And he just comes in, like, with all the answers.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:12

It's awful. I'm so sorry that I put you through that. But that's that's that legalistic bent. But also like, it's also the way I share I show love. I'm like, if I know that there's a a pit that you could fall in on this in in this on this trail, and I don't show you how to get around it, or I can't, I could never live with myself if you fall into that pit.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

I assume the worst and go, if you fall in that pit, this is what's gonna happen. So don't. This is the truth. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:47

But I feel like now we have grown so much that we understand each other more. And so I know that it's not coming at a place of like harshness.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

I'm not attacking you yet.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

You are intense though.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

So yeah, and if you've heard me preach or do anything, I'm like, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:09

But the last like several, like couple years, I would say it's more of like, okay, I see you. Like you love me. Yeah, you love me, and you really do want to help me. And so I uh appreciate like your wisdom. And I would say that like I've always appreciated your wisdom, but like you are have a supernatural gift of wisdom, and you have such a love for truth, and that you've always, even in hard moments, when even when I didn't want to hear it, like have brought that to me. So thankful.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:49

I'm thankful you're thankful for it because I know that was still growing. There's a lot of growth in that. A lot of growth in that.

Rapid Fire Dates Strength And Legacy Dreams

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

Um okay, we're gonna finish with this with a little rapid fire.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

Um, favorite date we've ever been on.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:08

I would say dates we've done to Disney.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Hands down Disney dates. Like I said, people don't understand. Yeah. We love family trips, but we love because they've our covenant people don't people don't understand that Disney has invested a lot in the past 14 years into experiences for adults, and the food is unbelievable. So I could name about 20 places right now where I'm like favorite date, favorite date, favorite date. So let's just put a blanket statement. Disney dates were phenomenal. Yeah. Um, also love a time that when we were learning how to do finances better and learning how to live on a fixed income when we were in South Carolina, is we did a date and I had the kids serve us as um they were bringing up the steak and the food into the backyard, and I had a little table and a candle lit, and we just did a dinner in the backyard. And the kids were so excited to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:12

I mean, I love even just our dates at home when the kids are here. I feel like we have like little mini dates, and it's like us sitting around the table playing cards with a little sweet treat, and just simple. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

But it's a date where you've been intentional about it. Uh favorite trip.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:34

California.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

LA. LA Hermosa to beach to be exact. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:40

It's life, it was life-changing. I say Disney and California were two life-changing moments.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Disney and Florida. Yeah. And then LA.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

Uh one word describes our marriage today. Go.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:55

Strong.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Strong. I agree. 100%. We've been through it. Yeah. We've been through it. And like our relationship has gone through many ch challenges. Um, and we have cling to God and each other and all of it. And I'm really proud of the strength of our marriage.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:12

We've had so much fun, so much joy. But there have been moments of tension, you know, when you go through things and we're both individually trying to process and still connect and still lead our family and do life and we always show up as our best selves.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

Like we always lean into each other.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:32

Like we choose the Lord, and we have chosen each other. And it's like brick by brick, like we're stronger.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

We always lean into each other instead of a way. Like we may need a moment to process, you might need to take a walk, I might need to take a walk, but we never go literally, we've never gone to bed at night without leaning into each other. And we may not have everything resolved or everything figured out, or how are we going to handle this, this, and this? But like we've always leaned in to each other, prayed together, loved each other, brought what we feel like we've heard in prayer together and go, I feel like Holy Spirit's saying this. And so I would say strength is a good word. Um what's one dream you still have for us?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:22

My one of our dreams I still have for us is having like a family compound, having land, and I guess that's a good word way to describe it, is to have I would say to have legacy land and to have land where if my kids want to build houses, we can all live together in a beautiful community and do life together. And that's my dream is to have land, land enough to be able to have homes for my children if they want them. Um our homestead. We have animals.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

We don't have like there's not a Bone in our body that's like whether it's ministry or business, where it's like we want Ferraris and mansions and yachts and all that. I'm not against any of those things. I'm just saying, like, our dreams are pretty simple. It's like we want land. We want all of our children, if they want to live on that land, to live there in a in a nice home. Yeah. And um and a side-by-side to ride around in. Pond efficient. A pond efficient.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:31

I want to have chickens and a couple little mini goats.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

The only thing that I have, two toys that I absolutely want. Number one, I want a side-by-side. And number two, I want a boat. I want a pontoon boat, family boat. Yeah. Goes fast enough to pull people on a tube, but not enough to break their ribs. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

And just I mean, it doesn't get better than that to me. And it's like, I I want to build that world. And like, yes, we have dreams in ministry about a camp and hundred acres, a gathering place, and all those things, but like the ultimate dream for us is legacy for the Casto family. Like we want to see poverty completely broken off of our bloodlines. We want to see um we want to have a marriage that models for generations what marriage looks like. We want our kids to have a model of parenting that they can continue on and make it better. They're gonna have better marriages than us, they're gonna have better parents, they're gonna be better parents than us. And like that's those are the dreams that we really have. And um, I think we're on our way.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:41

Yeah.

Partners Pastoral Retreats And Closing Thanks

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

So we got to talk more about marriage another time because you're right. There are great questions here. Maybe we'll just do once a month. We'll lean in on marriage and talk more and share more. But I want to thank you guys today for joining us at the family table. Listen, this is for pastors, this is for leaders, this is for those of you that feel the call of God in your life to host and to pour into other people. We want to be a resource to you. And so I encourage you, follow Destiny online, follow me on Instagram, Facebook, connect with us, send us questions. We love hearing from people. If the podcast is blessing you, I want to let you know that everything that we're doing like is literally partner supported. So every, every like our salary, partner supported. What it takes to do all of this media and to run this thing, it's partner supported. We, I think you guys know this. This is not a sob story at all, but we're basically starting over. We have a base salary that we're believing for for God to restore. We're halfway there. I was looking at the numbers today. We're halfway to where we need to be to have a salary to take care of our property and keep all of this going. We're halfway there. So if God speaks to you, I'm not putting any pressure on anybody, but if God speaks to you and you say, Mark, I want to support your family uh for the gospel's sake, um, when you support us, yes, it's we're paying bills, but what you're giving me and her is the gift of time for me to write books, for me to mine out theology and for the sermons that I preach, for um to create the media that we're called to to create and for us to be able to travel. There are things that we do in ministry that we don't get paid for. And it literally has to happen because partners believe in us and support us. And so I really want to look in this camera and encourage you and and say, hey, listen, if Holy Spirit speaks to you to partner with our ministry, I can promise you we will be faithful stewards of the money that you give. We're gonna invest it into our family because we have bills and and we got to eat, we got gas to put in a vehicle, and um, but we live a pretty simple life and um and we really want um to be able to support this media ministry. Yes. There are pastors and leaders, there's events that we're gonna host this fall that's all gonna be paid for by our partners.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:10

We are hosting almost on a regular basis, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

We host people, pastors, we put we host people, pastors and leaders at our house a lot.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:20

And um we have a pastoral retreat that I want to start planning. It's gonna be thousands of dollars to do it, and we don't want the pastors to have to pay a dime for it. I literally want to send the invitation out to these pastors and leaders that I know that need it and go, we're gonna pay for the whole thing. Food, lodging, everything. That's gonna happen through partners. Yes. So um really appreciate you guys being a part of this conversation. Um, to our partners, thank you for making this happen. Thank you. And um, yeah, we look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Family Table. Happy anniversary. I love you.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

I love you more.